Health bill a milestone or a mistake?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by TheNickiOfDoom, Mar 22, 2010.

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Health Care Reform bill...

Poll closed Apr 21, 2010.
  1. Milestone?

    13 vote(s)
    65.0%
  2. Mistake?

    7 vote(s)
    35.0%
  1. TheNickiOfDoom

    TheNickiOfDoom Time Lord

    Source
    I believe that this Health Care Reform is a bad idea. It's taking away our freedom and independence, and will run this country to the ground. I don't know about you guys, but I can't afford to be paying almost $100 extra a month to supplement this shit.
     
  2. Kaytea

    Kaytea TSoSP

    I'm completely lost as to how "Let's keep everyone healthy" is going to "kill everyone" (not quoting you personally on the kill everyone, just going with the general idea most people seem to have)

    Sure, it's hard for many to pay the extra per month
    but it's even harder for everyone to pay the hundreds or even thousands in the case of illness or an accident.

    I'm not trying to be sarcastic or "oh you're stupid"- not in the slightest! but i honestly don't understand people who say it's an awful idea, killing the country, taking away freedom
    like, I just genuinely can't wrap my head around it =/
     
  3. TheNickiOfDoom

    TheNickiOfDoom Time Lord

    If people can't afford health care now, they're not gonna be able to afford it when the bill goes into effect making it mandatory that everyone have health insurance or they will be slapped with a hefty fine.

    It's just one step closer to communism, if you ask me.
     
  4. Kaytea

    Kaytea TSoSP

    True, many can't afford the bill, but they even MORE can't afford to get sick/hurt, etc (oh dear lord that was AWFUL grammar. xD)

    Like, one may spend a long time paying the bills, not get sick
    but then get into an accident- with the healthcare they'd be more likely to survive
    without, they'd not be able to afford the thousands of dollars- probably more than they've spent on healthcare up until that point.

    While the near-fatal accident is a bit more unlikely of a scenario, the case of the elderly- grandparents, even parents- falling fatally ill is a lot more likely. In those cases it's usually not the patient themselves who foots the bill, but the close relatives; sometimes the cost of keeping the patient in the hospital for months at a time. If they can't afford it, the patient often simply dies within weeks.

    Correct me if i'm wrong, but the US has taxes that pay for public schools, roads... "paying for other peoples' kids to go to school" is perfectly okay and not "communism"? in fact, wasn't it Bush's (devastatingly backfiring) policy that promised to give even more money to schools doing better on specific tests? More of the taxpayers' money?

    Why would this not be "a step closer to communism", while paying money that will help to keep you and your own family alive and healthy for longer would be?
     
  5. Claire.

    Claire. Photographic Disorder.

    I agree with Katie, I think the Health Care Reform is a good thing.
     
  6. Thumbelina

    Thumbelina Administrator Staff Member

    I didn't read all of that/I do not know all the details, but as much shit as the NHS gets over here, I'd hate to think of living without it. I think it's a good idea and I certainly don't see it as putting bounds on freedom or anything like that.
     
  7. Madden

    Madden Faut souffrir pour ĂȘtre

    ^ Oh, definitely.

    Seeing as I'm not a US Citizen I'm pretty unbias to the whole situation and I can see it from both sides - the positives and the negatives. I'm not exactly knowledgable in the US Health Care system etc. but personally I'm leaning more towards the 'for' side.
     
  8. God

    God New Member

    Milestone for me. I get healthcare from my dad's job until I'm 24. This will extend it till I'm 26.

    How is it a bad thing that children won't be rejected from getting insurance because of pre-existing conditions?

    abcnews.go.com/Politics/HealthCare/health-care-bill-obama-sign-bill-tuesday/story?id=10169801&page=1
     
  9. TheNickiOfDoom

    TheNickiOfDoom Time Lord

    I just think that the way they're going about it is ridiculous. They're not listening to the people. I saw on CNN one day where they said that 63% of the US citizens do not want it, yet they went and passed it anyway. Also, my mom was telling me this morning she saw on the news that Obama spent the last few days calling up Congressmen and basically bribing them to vote Yes on this bill. It just seems very shady to me. Not to mention the fact that this reform is going to make this country even more bankrupt than we already are. It will only hurt us more than it will help us.
     
  10. Kaytea

    Kaytea TSoSP

    I understand that people don't want it- that lots of people don't want it, even. But what I still just can't understand is why nobody wants it.

    I wrote this earlier, when me and a few friends were discussing it on facebook, and although I kind of let loose with it a bit more than i would in a debate with my strong left-wing views and opinions, I'll post it here.

    "ahah i know you were kidding Sian*, but unfortunately, as you and i know, that IS the mentality (which is where devon's** comment comes in xD!)
    they like the idea that that IS how it's run- that their money goes to helping the richer, because they have the dream that one day they or they children could become one of those richer that's recieving the ... See moremoney, thanks to the bullshit they're fed and eat right up. On one hand, I understand slightly- it's comforting to hear that one day it "could be you" in the rich executive spots. But, on the other hand, there's a pretty damn good chance it won't be. Yet lining their pockets is funding freedom, while paying to save your own loved ones and those of others is feeding the beast of communism!"

    *sian's comment: Well how much is their health insurance?
    Surely they'd prefer to know this money is going to help other people than lining some executives pockets.

    Oh no wait a second, this is America, the home of ridiculous capitalism.

    **devon's comment: Americans are immune to the gene that carries/is responsible for logical thinking.


    Like i said, i try to not get swept up like that in proper debates (like on here) but i liked how what i wrote turned out, if you will
     
  11. God

    God New Member

    I do agree it's terrible timing with the way the economy is atm.
     
  12. Kaytea

    Kaytea TSoSP

    Mhmm, that part's true. But, on the other hand,

    - maybe now american money will go towards health and the people who need help it, and not bailouts for rich bankers
    - we need to bear in mind that while the economy's bad right now and it is kind of bad timing, it's all about the long-term, not the serve yourself, 'this is going to ruin my 2010/2011' after all, as the article you posted said, "the passage of health care reform is a huge win for President Obama, a goal that has been unsuccessfully pursued by presidents since Teddy Roosevelt."
    It's not like Obama woke up one day, said "Hey, know what would be a good idea?" and did it.
    He succeeded at something people have been aiming for for a century, and that many other countries have already achieved.
     
  13. Nukyster

    Nukyster Active Member

    I'm from Holland and I'm used to giving away a part of my paycheck to 'health care'. It sucks to see how much of what I earn going to 'someone else', but honestly it's not that bad. I mean if I get sick or lose my job I know I'll be able to live and eat and keep a roof over my head. To be honest I'd be pretty scared to live in America. I mean here in Holland I know that if something bad happens to me I won't need to think about money or how I'm going to pay for my operation.

    Personaly I think it's something you need to get used too. Sure I'd rather have a full paycheck but I think this new health bill is a good thing.
     
  14. Jaya.

    Jaya. Active Member

    ^ Agreed.

    I'm pro the reform. I think it would be comforting to know that you don't have to worry about how my medical bills were going to be covered if I were even in need of an operation/medical care.
     
  15. Nephilim

    Nephilim Give me love.

    Ditto, I'm from Australia, obvs. And I can't imagine not having Medicare. I think it'd be a great step for America.
     
  16. Noemi.

    Noemi. New Member

    We talk about this a lot in class and is extremely controversial. As much as it is a great leap for the Obama campaign, there are so many down sides to this. The country is already suffereing from massive dept and then they might just make it worse by making healthcare mandatory. Don't get me wrong, it's great that people have health insurance without having to have an employer supply it or being able to not afford it. I think it's great for the simple fact that I can relate somewhat relate. It sucks not having health insurance because if you get sick it's just like....oh well.

    I have no idea how they're going to go about this to make it all work, but I wish them the best of luck. Hopefully they don't tear this country down even more than it already is.
     
  17. darkestnight

    darkestnight Coffee Girl

    Frankly, I don't think they did enough. There should have been a public option. Most of the Congressmen are in the insurance agency's pocket. The slightly more socialist systems that are in place in a lot of Europeam countries, and other countries all over the world WORK, so America needs to suck it up and realize that we have to be in it for each other as much as we're in it for ourselves.
     
  18. Nukyster

    Nukyster Active Member

    Sure America has depts, but isn't it good to know that when you get sick you don't need to worry about how you're going to pay for your operation. I rather give up some of what I make then forced to come up with ten thousand euro because I need so very expensive operation. it's just a good safety net in times you need it.
     
  19. Don Ricalo

    Don Ricalo Panda Bear.

    Stress in a situation where you're already ill is the last thing you need, it's just going to cause you more harm than good. Do you really want to have to worry about your finances while you're in a hospital bed on a drip?
    It amuses me that you're quite happy filling the wallets of the insurance companies, but not that of your government, to help better your own country and in particular, it's healthcare. It's a very selfish act if you're against it, as this will not only be beneficial for you, but for everyone by helping to improve and advance in various ways throughout the whole medical field.
    This is healthcare that is guaranteed, something that cannot be denied to you because of your previous conditions. Insurance screws over those who have long term conditions by slapping a huge premium on it and increasing that as the situation gets worse, yet can still deny coverage when the time comes. How is that a fair healthcare system? We've had the NHS since the World Wars, it's never given us any real issues in those 60+ years, so why can America not see how it works?
    I think that in 20 years once this has all settled in and become the norm, you'll try explain the concept of health insurance to someone and they'll just laugh at you.
     
  20. Thumbelina

    Thumbelina Administrator Staff Member

    It appears to me (though, it's not like I'm in American and have spoken to a bajillion people about) that the main reasons people are opposing this are: the debt the country's already in and not getting a choice.
    1. What country's not in debt, at the moment?! I mean, seriously. I don't really think that's a decent argument against it, considering what you're getting (specifically: see Richard's post).
    2. You didn't get a choice?! WELL BOO FUCKIN' HOO, go cry to your mummy, why don't you? If you (as a whole) DID have a choice, it would seem (according to that article) that the bill wouldn't have passed and you'd be stuck getting screwed by insurance. How could that be the preferable option?

    I don't know. I (think I) have already said I'm relatively ignorant, but still.
     

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